TOWGT = Bad Buyer

[holden_caulfield04]

Short Version

Agreed to terms with TOGWT to redesign his site and create and maintain a vBulletin site. Have sent repeated emails and PMs and all have been ignored. I even warned him twice about this upcoming post but he ignored me. No explanation, nothing.

Personally, I would not deal with TOGWT again. http://www.acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/censored.gif

Long Version

I own and operate Apollo Detailing, an automotive reconditioning business in southern Ontario. I provide a lot of detailing advice on forums such as Autopia, Detail University, and Detailing Bliss, as well as many more. I also publish something called, The Detailing Manual and you can find it at http://detailingmanual.blogspot.com (http://detailingmanual.blogspot.com/).

TOGWT is a fellow detailer and writer, like myself. He is currently in the process of writing/publishing his books and provides a lot of his excerpts of his work on various detailing forums and is quite well known.

This leads me to the issue today, TOGWT had a lousy/no website and I was particularly skilled at making them so I offered up my services, told him my price, and he said yes. And I haven't heard anything since.

I google searched "TOGWT" and found he had a profile here so I signed up and provided this little nugget of info for all. I know is he a well-respected member here. I can understand why members would feel that way - I did at one time as well.

I'm just providing you will the full picture of who TOGWT really is.

[OCDetails]

Hey, I've been there and done that. I do graphic design on the side as well as detailing. I've been burned a couple of times, so now I never do anything for first time customers unless they either pay up front or I already have a relationship with them. I even have a fairly extensive Terms and Conditions on my website that I refer them to.

However, to be fair, I recently thought I was being ripped off on a deal through ebay. I wrote repeatedly and tried to get some sort of response from them. I finally left scathing feedback and filed a dispute for the payment. Two weeks after the fact they contacted me and explained that they had been in the hospital and they were very sorry for the misunderstanding. If TOGWT has been active on the forums he participates in and is not responding to you, then that is one thing, but if he has been AWOL to everybody, then it might be something you want to give him the benefit of the doubt for.

Bottom line, don't deliver graphics until the bill has been paid. ;) I always watermark all my stuff when I show examples and for websites they are always built on one of my domains before I ever transfer files to theirs. Always protect yourself in business. :)

[holden_caulfield04]

He has been fairly active and has read every piece of correspondence I have sent his way. That's what infuriates me. The lack of even some form of explanation.

[OCDetails]

Yup. I did that once for a detailer who ran another message board that had nothing to do with cars. It talked about credit and how to get rich quick. He even put his credit score of 500something in his signature there. Anyway, he screwed me on some logo design. I told him that if I had seen his credit score before he asked me to do the job then I would have told him to take a hike or get paid up front. He was one of those "the check is in the mail" losers. The check was never in the mail and he was just looking for an opportnity to screw me. I was an admin on a detailing site and a moderator on another one at the time and I made sure he got banned from both. ;)

[holden_caulfield04]

Now I find that TOGWT hasn't only been untruthful to me...

TOGWT has been:

1) Banned from Autopia for plagiarizing information from his "book"

2) Banned from Meguiar's Online for posting misinformation (likely plagiarized)

3) Routed from AcuraZine for this exchange:

I guess part of my gist was TOGWTs cut and pastes are in a lot of cases not feasable to a total newbie who is asking a very basic question about claying a car.

I regret that the information I provide is too much for you to comprehend, I won't bother you or this this forum in the future.

[OCDetails]

Yup. I'm fairly sure he got nuked from DetailCity too. ;) He has been known to plagerize plenty of people's work. I highly expect to find my own work in his posts somewhere.

[holden_caulfield04]

Well, in this world you certainly meet all kinds. At least I wasn't accused of being "the bad guy" here, as I was on another forum for simply airing this issue in public when it could not be resolved in private.

[OCDetails]

Yup. And at the worst you are only out some time. It isn't like you paid him for something he never made good on. As long as you didn't send him the files that he can use anytime he wants, then technically you both lost on this one. He gets more negative rep all over the internet (a quick google of TOWGT shows that you have been busy at that) and you lost out on the time. I just look at it as good practice that furthers my skills as a designer. It is also good lessons learned like this that contributed to my terms and conditions. www.10-2graphics.com/tos.htm (http://www.10-2graphics.com/tos.htm)

[holden_caulfield04]

How long has DetailingForums.com been around? I have been looking around and I quite like the layout. Thinking about sticking around for a while...

As if I need to be a member of another forum. lol

[Charlies02GLS]

How long has DetailingForums.com been around? I have been looking around and I quite like the layout. Thinking about sticking around for a while...

As if I need to be a member of another forum. lol

Based off of Bob's "join date" I'd guess December 2004

[OCDetails]

Yes, but we have been around in spirit much longer. lol

[Bob]

It used to be called danaseforums.com but I wanted to get away from people thinking it was just a forum for Danase.com and wanted them to feel free to discuss anything detailing related so we changed it to Detailforums.com. I can't remember when the site changed names but danaseforums.com started in 2004 and stayed slow for a bit. We are starting to pick up now, which is good!

[TOGWT]

The last correspondence I had with you I relayed the following-

Tyler,
Apologies, I have to meet some writing deadlines, so I'm concentrating my efforts on those right now.

I'm going to use your services for the website design and will get back to you after Easter.

Regards,
JonM

I'm not sure what it is you hope to accomplish with this course of action, perhaps it a new way of negatively marketing your business.

I don't know what 'work' you could have done on the my website as you don't have access to it, I haven't seen or approved any graphics or website layouts and I haven't given you permission to proceed with any work (I would have thought an upfront payment of 50% before work commences and the balance upon compleation would be a normal method of payment terms).

If however you feel you have incurred any legitimate reimbursable costs please forward an invoice to TOGWT Limited.

[Road Kill]

I don't get it :confused:

"This leads me to the issue today, TOGWT had a lousy/no website and I was particularly skilled at making them so I offered up my services, told him my price, and he said yes. And I haven't heard anything since.
"

how is this bad?, you guys agreed to an exchange of service for a price, then nothing further happened. Happens all the time. Now if you have a signed contract, I guess you have a complaint, but it does not sound to me like you did any actual work beyond the work you did agreeing to a verbal contract. While this may be disappointing, he did not rip you off, just backed out of a deal which may or may not be a legitimate contract.

not taking sides, but you have alledged the guy is a rat without legitimate proof, actually he could accuse you of defamation, seems to me you would be both better off letting it drop unless there is something more definite